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STAMP site in Genesee County


Did you know there’s a plan to put a giant science and tech park in Genesee County that backers say has the potential to create 30,000 jobs?

The mega-site is called STAMP – short for Science Technology Advanced Manufacturing Park.

From the STAMP website:

The STAMP site has great potential to transform Western New York into a high-tech/clean-tech hub of manufacturing similar to Luther Forest in Saratoga. After five years with $1.5 billion in private investment, over 2,000 jobs will be created onsite and about 5,500 regional supply chain jobs will be leveraged.  Full build-out of the STAMP site is expected to be 15 to 20 years out, but will bring in $10 billion in private capital investment and employ over 10,500 workers directly, 30,000 supply chain jobs and 2,839 construction jobs across both the Buffalo and Rochester metro areas.

Folks, this is way bigger than yogurt.

Economic development officials think they can leverage low cost power and huge amounts of land to attract high tech companies. STAMP is one of the priority projects for the Finger Lakes Regional Economic Development Council. The estimated cost to develop the site is $250 million. The Buffalo News reports:

Steven G. Hyde, president and CEO of the Genesee County Economic Development Center, said plans for the park are in their sixth year. “This isn’t a pipe dream that just started yesterday. This is real and has lots of potential.”


While semiconductor chip manufacturing is a prime target for STAMP, it is not the only high-tech industry that would be a good fit, Hyde said, mentioning solid-state lighting and photovoltaic products as two others.

Competing for such coveted plants requires a massive, available site like STAMP with some infrastructure, Kucharski said. These types of companies want access to a large labor pool like Buffalo and Rochester can offer, but also want to build on a low-vibration “greenfield” with ample room to expand; Kucharski said the STAMP site meets those criteria.

It seems Eastman Business Park and STAMP have the same goals. EBP has more going for it in terms of existing infrastructure and proximity to workers, transportation and the airport. EBP may not be a “greenfield,” but it’s just as large. EBP, which is also a Finger Lakes council priority, will almost certainly require gobs of tax dollars to modernize. Why not shift STAMP there? Why are we going to spend millions of both sites? Both will compete for the same tax dollars and tenants.

This seems like industrial sprawl.

Links of the Day:

– The “elder statesman” of the Sabres, who helped bring the team to Buffalo, has died.

The story of a Rochester policeman who is gay.

– The Los Angeles Times has the touching and sad story of a religious teenager paralyzed in a shooting who snitches because it’s the right thing to do. Part One and Part Two.

– Let’s remember this holiday season how little retail workers are paid. There are good reasons they should be paid more.

How much longer can J.C. Penney survive?

Why pot should be legalized.

25 Responses to Industrial Sprawl?

  1. November 24, 2012 at 12:45 pm Eduardo Ricardo responds:

    If it comes here, then start with COMIDA. No problems there.

  2. I think they should put STAMP on University near the Cultural District in DWTN ROC.

  3. This is what happens when we think locally and not as a region. Duplicated efforts wasting tax dollars and energy, and hurt the success of both. Then we have the environmental harm. We are destroying “greenfields” while industrial “brownfields” sit vacant. What’s the point we’re destroying the natural beauty and health of the environment around us for nothing but sprawl. If we needed it for new people and jobs that’s one thing, but to spread out out exsisting jobs and people is luanacy

  4. Does Genesee County not have the right to grow their tax base and develop economically? When was that law passed and by whom?

    Who says what NY State Counties can seek economic growth and which ones can’t? IS that the same guy or gal who can tell us that we have not yet reached racial hiring or college admissions equality?

    Who gives these rights in a free society? Apparently those on these boards have the right to say they can’t exercise their freedom to develop their area.

  5. Is this really sprawl? Could it just be progress? The economy needs to spend money to survive. Construction jobs to build the factories. Then jobs to run and maintain the factories. Then the restaurants and stores to provide goods for the workers. You say keep it at Eastman Business Park. That would be fine with me. There must be a reason that this new business park is being proposed. What is the reason? Why won’t Eastman work? I don’t know. But instead of complaining of sprawl, get to the root of the decision. I would be interested in the truth.

  6. Forest for the trees people.
    This is part of the push to move industry from the ‘outskirts’ to along the Thruway. Remember Canandaigua being chosen as the host for that State sponsored mega funded whatever? The change of 332 to what is basically a highway. Rochester is ‘out there’, no reason to get off the Thruway to go there. You can’t even see the city skyline from the Thruway for God’s sake. So considering the issues the City has, along with environmental costs/concerns, ease of access, ease of access and, yeah, ease of access the push is on to migrate the ‘region’ south towards the Thruway and leave Rochester and it’s burbs to degrade into a Niagara Falls type area; a former industrial with nothing but a nightlife and cultural scene now but with nice burbs.

    • Well if thats true that Rochester will move towards the thruway and leave the CITY and the burbs to degrade… it aint working and it hasn’t since the thruway bi-passed ROCH in 1956. In fact economically even with the fall of Kodak, ROCH is forecast to grow past Buff in the next 20yrs. Our local economy is in far better shape than Buff or Syr. and less dependent on Govt. and more based on the private sector economy… if only we can keep it that way.

  7. You might be confusing the predicted growth of 2 different things, “Rochester” and the “Rochester Region”, a multi county area that includes areas well south of the city that have no business being related to Rochester but are out of convenience, skewing the numbers on all of those Top 10 lists we appear on.
    The area along the Thruway is being focused on at the expense of the city proper. So growth of the “Region” might be expected to grow, but it will be at the expense of the actual city. Not a pro/con city issue as I see it, but a power grab done via development. The farmland along the Thruway is a blank sheet of paper for the Ryan homes, Danny Wegmans and Danatellis of the “Region”. Develop it in the way they see fit and they build in a political base for 50 years that will outnumber the ‘city folk’ and therefore mute them.
    The isolation caused by the Thruway bypassing Rochester is part of why the area is swirling the drain. The 3rd largest city in the state and once you get east of Rome people say “oh, Rochester, yeah I know someone who went to school there” and once you get south of Albany they say “you mean New Rochelle?” The realization that there isn’t, hasn’t and won’t ever be a reason to take one of the 3 exits leading to the city off 90 unless you actually want to stop here is the reality of the situation.
    I’ve always wondered why our Chamber of Commerce hasn’t had permanent billboards up on the Thruway with pictures of downtown’s skyline (sorry, Centre City….. or Center City….. maybe Sentor Sitty?) and the line “Hey you, driving across the state! NY’s 3rd largest city is just off this exit! Come see what we’re all about!” but that would be inviting and we all know one thing about Smugtown, it does’t want outsiders in it. Outsiders might expose some sunlight on the crooks running the shows around here.

  8. That’s probably the real reason, people with influence own that land so they want to line their pockets at everyone’s expense. Genesee county has every right to expand, but shouldnt get a single penny from the state. Maybe its an example of how the funding system for local governments needs to change, metro govt regionalization might not be so bad. My real point is if we keep on this obsession of developing green space when brownfields with infrastructure able to support development sit vacant were just going to move across Western New York in the next 100 years and destroy the natural beauty and ecosystems like a swarm of locust as each generation moves to destroy more land. Yogurt and the ag park make sense for Genesee county its a rural agraian county, but industrial processes that probably will leave contamination in the ground makes sense to put it on already used land. Besides eastman business park and industrial parts of Monroe county have the infrastructure already there, water, power, sewer, many even have rail spurs that only need some rehab. Theres is an ethonal plant in shelby Orleans county, that males sense because its close to the farmers that make the corn they use.

  9. Taking over “brown fields” usually also means taking over numerous environmental clean up issues and potential fines brought on by the DEMS and Greenies that also prohibit companies and investors building there. What would you do, take on the RISK or avoid it?

    Danny Wegman is not anti city. He will build new major “urban stores” in both Rochester and Boston in the next two years. A model that if successful, he will duplicate in other citys. Mr Wegman, simply does what so many do, and that is follow the money. They build, almost exclusively, where the money is, except in upstate markets.

    Wegmans didn’t build the high income areas, they go and build in those markets once defined and established.

    Rochester’s business Climate is growing well, even with losing Kodak, ITT, Paychex, Wegmans, Carestream, etc are picking up the slack just fine. Our area needs to realize that these companies and their support CO’s are really the strength of ROCH not the area colleges.

    The reason why ROCH “CITY” is going down hill has nothing to do with the Thruway location. Poor students in city schools who don’t care or graduate, families with out fathers, high crime and murder rates and a DEM party and its voters with Media supporting their failed plans, who never challenge those in charge of the CSD or the city DEM party or ever would vote them out.

    Can you imagine having 50% of your students not graduating and yet voting for the same party to run that mess for 40yrs? Those voters don’t vote the issues, they vote for one party and or one race and they have the city and schools they voted for. Which results in a failing and abandonment of a city proper, by many.

  10. Brownfield in my post was to describe previously developed land that is now vacant and may have incidental or easily remediated contamination issues. I wouldn’t put my house on Kodak Park’s open land, but Id build a factory or other commercial venture there.

    I wouldn’t call the new east ave wegmans an urban store.

    You are right about businesses and the city itself. I think the colleges do have economic value, specificly U of R and RIT for practical application of research or student ideas. We’ve seen several examples, but besides that you’re right the colleges don’t add much. The city will never rebound residentially until RCSD is fixed, the School Board and Admin is incompetent. Many middle class families move out when the kids reach school age, there are a lot of neighborhoods that could greatly rebound if the school situation was fixed. I don’t have muh faith in city hall either. The people on the ground providing services are awesome, 30 churh st not so much.

  11. You are confusing my points.
    Rochester exits as it is because it was isolated by the Thruway. The isolation was great for a company town like we were in the past. Now it allows us to just be forgotten as we literally aren’t there in the eyesight of those traversing the state and our blight is therefore not front and center of anyone who has not chosen to come here as opposed to the rest of upstate where you are forced to view Buffalo, Syracuse and other areas. Poor students and crime aren’t related to that isolation and I didn’t mean that they were, but now that they are here, hidden away to the north of I-90 they can be written off and outside of northern Monroe County nobody cares because we are just a name on a highway sign and a spot on a map to most NY’ers no matter how important we think Rochester is.
    Danny Wegman, Ryan Homes, Mario and his restaurants don’t hate the city and I didn’t say they did. But they are politically savvy and if they can develop from scratch (partly because of the issues like brown fields) they will. If they can work together via backroom gov’t to develop an entire area or region they will and it will be to their own financial and political benefit first and foremost. Do you think Mario’s son decided politics was better than restaurant-ing out of civic duty? That is an insult to his intelligence. It is about power. The same power the hacks on the left use in the city proper.
    I don’t blame any local politician for wanting growth in their area and rural NY along the Thruway is a great place to develop when you look at it without bias. As I said, access, unspoiled land, a blank sheet of paper is every developers dream. If NY really wants to save money and encourage Rochester’s survival I say they should rip up the Thruway between exits 45-47 and force traffic into Rochester along 490 and 390. The lack of access would then discourage the development of that farm land along the current I-90 and travelers would be exposed to Rochester as never before by being forced to drive through it like they are cites all over the United States that have parts of the Interstate system running through them.
    But that is not even remotely a reality, so anyone with a realistic view must accept that development shall continue to fill in the space between I-90 and Rt 490 at the expense of the upkeep of what already exists. It isn’t going to take place along the Parkway/Ridge Rd and 104 (Webster and points east) and the 390 off ramp U of R wants proves that. I know that 20-30 minutes to get to the Thruway from here in the city doesn’t sound like much until you make that drive regularly. As I said, nobody traversing NY on the Thruway on a regular basis takes exits 45, 46 or 47 just to ‘check it out’ or ‘grab lunch while I was passing through’ and I can tell you from my own experiences in the past couple of decades of traveling all over the USA via my truck and motorcycles that most Americans have no problem letting areas become ghost towns.
    Again, I am not looking at this as a pro city/con city thing, I see it as a push by nitwits like Seligman to develop a future power base via development and I don’t blame developers for wanting a piece of that pie. I agree with you that these eggheads are bamboozling us with their ‘U of R is our largest employer’ talk. Tell me wages and benefits, not employee totals. Wal Mart might employ a lot of folks but everyone can agree most of them aren’t getting rich working there. But as I frequently say, the ‘Pittsford Mafia’ has everyone snowed, even those dolts in the city Dem party. They are so busy fighting each other over dumb crap that they don’t see that they are being developed out of power. Hell, even the poor have been fleeing the city for the burbs according to reports.
    In the military you advance on your objective by taking land. Sure you can land paratroopers behind the lines and fight in pockets here and there and there are sometimes areas that you bypass to be mopped up later, but in the end you need movement on the entire front to reach your objective. The development front is pushing towards the Thruway. Rochester is being left to it’s own Stalingrad.

  12. “I wouldn’t call the new east ave wegmans an urban store.”
    That is the kind of statement that proves my point. Bickering over a grocery store being ‘urban’ or not instead of asking why there aren’t more grocery stores in the city and what we can do to change it (sorry Bill). That is a perfect example of the forest for the trees thing.
    Urban is a measure of population density, but I read Bill’s comment and sense an undertone of ‘that store serves whites and Park/East Ave, it doesn’t count’. Anyone who doesn’t think Irondequoit, Gates and Brighton are ‘urban’ areas by definition is nuts but because they aren’t incorporated cities they are categorized in the same way as Mendon and Churchville. ‘Urban’, much like ‘racist’ and ‘racism’ have been bastardized to mean something they don’t by those pushing an agenda. All that does is place the focus on one of those battles and not the objective of the war. Just like Stalingrad.
    If ‘urban’ means areas likely to have high population density AND poor schools, violence, crime and a majority population of nonwhites (as opposed to mostly whites) than someone should inform the dictionary companies. Remember, words have power and purposefully misusing those words is as bad as flat out making things up.

  13. There is very little development around here that is solely thruway based. Some around 390/90 more in Victor.

    But eastview is there and the general area promote as well if not far more. That area’s housing developed based on beautiful land, rolling hills, great schools, Pitts Fairport Mendon (HFL) and Victor, and its easier driving to most finger lakes and Skiing.

    Mario and his restaurants are in total a very very small player. Nice man, great food, nice family, but he is by no means a major leader in development.

    East Ave store is in the CITY, thats called “Urban” in most people’s view. If your saying the higher income areas of cities are not “urban” .. well too bad, thats only where Wegmans will build.

    If you think Wegmans are wrong to move out of the bad hoods, don’t blame Wegmans, blame the people, practices, political party and culture that glorifies and builds the “hood” life style. Again they have the schools and city they voted for.

    And we have the president they voted for as well.

  14. You know what happens when you assume…. The east ave wegmans isn’t urban because its a large hulking box that is almost identical to the ones they put in the ‘burbs, save for a few exceptions. An urban wegmans would be an expanded improved version of the one that’s already there. Just for fairness tops aren’t urban either, they too are large brick boxes surronded by pavement. As you said its not urban, its not dense. Just because something has the title of city slapped on it doesn’t make it urban either. It has nothing to do with socioeconomic class or race. So don’t assume….

    Btw this is development not war, taking land just to spread out does nothing to advance or objective unless its to destroy the environment.

  15. You pretty much agreed with me there. The 104 area on both sides of the river, 531 and 441 are played out as far as big growth goes and as you said the Finger Lakes is the main draw around the region not Lake Ontario so the development…… moves towards the Thruway.
    Someone did a report a few years ago proposing Canadaigua as the regional hub/main city in 20-30 years and made all of the arguments I am, most importantly that the main east/west highway for this part of the nation goes closer to there than Rochester and the lack of current development in the area means it can be planned out for growth. I think it was back when 332 was being widened. Look around the country, people move to where the expressways are, like the railroads and rivers before them.
    For the local Dems to focus constantly on the city and it’s issues while writing off the burbs opens up all of that undeveloped land for Republicans to lock down with young families who will build there as it’s developed, and as I said before, they become a power base for decades. What do the local Dems want? Complexes for the elderly here and there in each town and apparently grocery stores in the urbanist of urban areas. Nobody asks U of R to pay taxes, nobody asks all of the Not For Profits to show what they actually accomplish. It is self segregation by city Dems. Look at Gantt….. that cat could;t find Gates if he was dropped off on Chili Ave at the railroad underpass next to the canal.
    And when I say Mario or Ryan Homes or Paychex or whomever I mean them in a way to put a familiar name to things so readers can relate but to ignore Mario’s son and his political aspirations is to be foolish. He might not have any now, but he is in a position to be invited to have some (see our former Police Chief/Mayor/Lt. Gov for an example of someone who played that game perfectly with zero positive results for the greater Rochester area).

  16. Bill, from your tone I think I was right. You have decided what urban means and it is an incorrect definition of the word. (A large, hulking box by definition isn’t urban? Can you say Midtown Plaza? ) You can’t make words mean what you want because you say so. That is one of the largest problems we have in this country is people debating what the meaning of ‘is’ is.
    And if you sat down and talked to local politicos they way I have you would know that it really is war to them. It is calculated down to the local party committees with tactics and strategy. To look at it in any other way is ignorant. Sun Tsu’s The Art of War is on every up and comer’s reading list. In the Marines we called it ‘Sun Tsu, Master of the Obvious” but unfortunately it’s teaching aren’t obvious to everyone because things like common sense get trumped by politics, bravado and ambition. And the argument of what ‘is’ is.

  17. No you aren’t right, you are wrong. Midtown wasn’t good urban design but it is different from the wegmans that is a large box with a massive asphalt front lawn. A grocery store that is 90k sq ft with a restaurant, that doesn’t even have the entrance facing the street isn’t urban. Put simply if I could pick up the building and plop it in a strip mall and it would fit in, it isn’t urban. You know you’ve lost an urban design debate when you reference almost anything built in downtown Rochester from 1945 to the present. That neighborhood is urban, the residential areas near there are some of the densest in the city, but shoehorning a building into an urban area doesn’t make it an urban building.

  18. Again, you are talking about your definition of the word and while in the context you use it, it is understandable, it is still wrong. It is wrong because I have yet to find a definition of urban that considers building style or footprint. I agree with you if you’re saying they could’ve designed the building to fit the area better or even gone so far as to create a faux “Village of Brighton” out of the facade but saying something as arrogant as you did shows me that you are definitely a what “is” is person which is great from an academic point of view but doesn’t work where the rubber meets the road. The new very urban Wegmans at East/Winton/University will prove to be the best looking building on any of those 4 corners. Or do gas stations, drive through burger joints and strip plazas count as urban?

  19. As usual these debates about “economic development” come down to those who think we should use government money and power to force business to build in the city and those who are fine with giving our money to businesses and subsidizing them as long as it’s NOT in the city. And our elected “leaders” will compromise by doing both as our taxes and budgets spiral out of control and it gets harder and harder for those businesses not favored by the political elites of the left or right wings to survive.

  20. Justaguy, look at orielly’s original use of “urban store”. I respond to it and you jump in and start trying to criticize my definition of urban (which was actually orielly’s definition). The facts are Wegmans and other retailers are creating stores to fit into urban neighborhoods size wise and design wise, that’s what he was referencing and for the purpose of this discussion that’s what “urban store” and urban means. You were the one jumping in and arguing the definition when orielly had already defined it for the purpose of the discussion. So ill say it again, while I understand what he meant by “urban store”, I disagree East Ave follows the general prinicpals of the big boxes’ adaptation to urban neighborhoods.

    Mike C. you have an excellent point that does seem to be the general theme in the area. But this ignores that the problem is now county wide. You can se the vacant commercial space in many of the towns as comida gives breaks for companies to move or build further and further out

  21. I read Orielly’s original use of “urban store” as ‘a store in the city’, but I can see how it could be seen as ‘an urban model of store design vs a suburban mega store design’ i.e. a smaller footprint vs we have all of the room in the world. I read urban and think ‘population’. I have no agenda or affiliation and like Mike C. I know both of our local political parties are as crooked as a stream through the mountains.

  22. bill,

    You’re correct that it’s a county wide problem, as well as a country wide problem. I don’t deny that and wish more people realized the truth you’re speaking! I’m just so tired of seeing every debate about economic development come down to anti-business statists on the left who deny that taxes and excessive regulation have caused the abandonment of many of the properties they want to force businesses to use regardless of the economic merits and the boosters of crony capitalism on the right who want to pretend that sprawl is entirely a natural phenomenon with no roots in government policies and that subsidizing politically connected businesses with tax breaks, subsidies, and new infrastructure to build new on undeveloped land because it’s easier, even though it’s not economically viable without government assistance is just the free market at work.

  23. Wegmans building on EAST Ave will be an “urban” design – for them. IT will maximize the key products for that marketplace (high end foods, lots of ready made take outs, ie ‘whats for dinner tonight’ etc.) All set to sell to DINKs and singles. There was talk of two floors on East Ave, I don’t know if they will do that or not. They will maximize their offering in a limited footprint. (Urban)

    They are now committed to Downtown Boston as I understand it. They will use what they learned at East Ave and make that Boston store even more “urban” or CITY type store. Will you be able to drive to it, I would bet yes. But it will also be suited to the walker or city subway customer.

    To me thats ‘Urban’ ———————–

    On the 104 corridor in the Northeast the comment that is is max out is in my view WRONG. Rochester is expanding beyond the county line there as well and are well into Wayne county. More and more people are moving that way as seen by traffic on the 104 at 7 am in Wayne county. Even as far as Wolcott and beyond that road is busy and moving at 65mph. Go 55 and you have a line behind you. People are living all along the lake to Sodus and Port Bays and commuting to Roch East side for work – daily. I have watch this growth and see it further expanding over time.

    Real estate on those Bays is approaching finger lakes prices and offers far easier commute to Roch than any finger lake year around homes, other than norther Canandaigua, Conesus and Honoeye. They also offer access to lake Ontario,

    Roch is not just growing towards Victor.

  24. November 27, 2012 at 11:46 am theodore kumlander responds:

    they will contunue to build no matter how many empty building sit rotting away.

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